Linux Help
guides forums blogs
Home Desktops Distributions ISO Images Logos Newbies Reviews Software Support & Resources Linuxhelp Wiki

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )



Advanced DNS Management
New ZoneEdit. New Managment.

FREE DNS Is Back

Sign Up Now
 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Forget Switf Boats, Microsoft Launches it's own smear adds
Jim
post Aug 26 2004, 03:56 PM
Post #1


Its GNU/Linuxhelp.net
*******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 1,280
Joined: 19-November 03
From: University of Minnesota- TC
Member No.: 1,828



New adds run by Microsoft claim that Linux is 10 times more expensive than Server 2003. Some how I find that very hard to believe....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3600724.stm


--------------------
--Jim Lester
jim@linuxhelp.net

Distro: Gentoo
System: AMD Athlon 3000+ XP 2.166 GHz
NVIDIA nForce2 IGP Chipset
1GB 333 MHz DDR SDRAM
NVIDIA nForce2 Dual Head 64 MB Graphics

Server Distro: CentOS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jim
post Aug 26 2004, 04:11 PM
Post #2


Its GNU/Linuxhelp.net
*******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 1,280
Joined: 19-November 03
From: University of Minnesota- TC
Member No.: 1,828



Ok, some more links...

http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/migra...te/unix/tco.asp

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversyst...vulnerable.mspx

http://download.microsoft.com/download/7/d...ssCosts0404.pdf


--------------------
--Jim Lester
jim@linuxhelp.net

Distro: Gentoo
System: AMD Athlon 3000+ XP 2.166 GHz
NVIDIA nForce2 IGP Chipset
1GB 333 MHz DDR SDRAM
NVIDIA nForce2 Dual Head 64 MB Graphics

Server Distro: CentOS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jim
post Aug 26 2004, 04:18 PM
Post #3


Its GNU/Linuxhelp.net
*******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 1,280
Joined: 19-November 03
From: University of Minnesota- TC
Member No.: 1,828



Ok, so obviously since I am not out there I can't speak from personal experience, but sifting through the data, it seems to be very missleading, since the Linux based buisnesses they are always refering to have switched with in one year or so. Obviously the cost of switching is going to be more than staying with a system.

The other part of it seems to be our fault, techs for linux are 10 to 20 percet more expensive than windows techs, but there is a big suprise, we are the minority, so we are worth more.

Building a new system with linux is probably cheaper.
QUOTE
The CIO of this technology company estimated his Linux deployment, “Cost us around 20% less than it would have cost us with Windows.”


Either way, they whole thing just suprised me so I thought I would through it up here.


--------------------
--Jim Lester
jim@linuxhelp.net

Distro: Gentoo
System: AMD Athlon 3000+ XP 2.166 GHz
NVIDIA nForce2 IGP Chipset
1GB 333 MHz DDR SDRAM
NVIDIA nForce2 Dual Head 64 MB Graphics

Server Distro: CentOS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hughesjr
post Aug 26 2004, 09:16 PM
Post #4


Its GNU/Linuxhelp.net
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,433
Joined: 25-July 03
From: Corpus Chrsiti, TX, USA
Member No.: 1,151



Well,

I personally know that I have saved tons of money using Linux instead of Windows 2003 server for web, database, file servers and DNS for my company.

However, I do admit that if you are using RHEL 3 AS and paying $2499 a year for the best support package, that does increase the cost enough that Windows 2003 is at least competitive on price.

Also, if all your administrators know windows and none know Linux/Unix then you will need to add staff to run the new linux servers. If you keep all the old windows administrators and add some others for linux, that is also an increased cost.

So, to be honest, if you had to add 5 new servers at $2500 each per year (for RHEL 3 AS) and had to hire a qualfied sys admin for $75,000/year ... then the cost would be pretty high ... $87,500/year. Just standing up 5 Windows 2003 machines using your current administrators would be only $25,000/year. In this senario, Linux was $62,500/year more expensive.

BUT ... if you already have someone who knows Linux on staff, and if you use WBEL or CentOS on the servers, then the extra cost for the software and admin are $0.00 ... and you saved $25,000.00 not using Windows 2003 server.

So, it depends on the software used, the level of software support you need to pay for, and if you must hire new support staff.

I promote linux as a more secure and less expensive alternative to Windows 2003 server for everything except a Windows domain controller ... but it can be more expensive if not properly installed and maintained.


--------------------
Johnny Hughes
hughesjr@linuxhelp.net
Enterprise Alternatives: CentOS, WhiteBoxEL
Favorite Workstation Distros (in order): CentOS, Gentoo, Debian Sarge, Ubuntu, Mandrake, FedoraCore, Slackware, SUSE
Favorite Server Distros (in order): CentOS, WhiteBoxEL, Debian Sarge, Slackware, Mandrake, FedoraCore, Gentoo, SUSE
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hemant
post Aug 27 2004, 04:56 AM
Post #5


RMS is my Hero
******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 782
Joined: 6-October 02
From: Trichy,INDIA
Member No.: 29



And you guys probably missed out something latest!!!
UK advertisment watchdog(some govt. body) has called to stop that ad in UK.Any magazine or channel,showing that ad will be prosecuted.

THey found microsoft claims to be misleading.


--------------------
Hemant Kumar
user posted image
hemant@linuxhelp.net
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chrisw
post Aug 27 2004, 08:16 AM
Post #6


RMS is my Hero
******

Group: Admin
Posts: 634
Joined: 27-September 02
From: Louisiana
Member No.: 5



http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversyst...vulnerable.mspx

the only thing i have to say about this link is..yes windows is more
secure than linux when it is still in the shrink wrap box at your
local retail store...thats about the only time it is more secure.

and i do not think that microsoft introduces fixes faster..because
of the closed architecture...being that if there is a security
issue in linux ANYONE can fix the problem ...you DONT have to
wait for some lazy fool at microsoft to get around to fixing it...


thats just my 2 cents..

-chris


--------------------

Chris W.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hughesjr
post Aug 29 2004, 07:52 AM
Post #7


Its GNU/Linuxhelp.net
*******

Group: Admin
Posts: 3,433
Joined: 25-July 03
From: Corpus Chrsiti, TX, USA
Member No.: 1,151



As to the speed of fixes, some projects are fast at fixes, others are slow. Microsoft does a fairly good job at releasing fixes...and they should because of the money you pay to use their programs. There are certianly some open source projects that put out updates much faster than Microsoft ... there are others that are much slower.

The majority of problems with Microsoft products are the users don't install Anti-Virus software and they don't install the updates on their servers and workstations. Those same people won't properly maintain Linux anymore than they properly maintain Windows.

Microsoft is not the bad guy, the people who write the exploits and viruses are. Microsoft employs thousands of people and pays them very well ... I'm all for paying my rent, how about you?

Microsoft wants to make money, plain and simple ... it is their goal. So, they sell stuff and have a business plan to put their software on as many computers as possible and to sell it and make money.

Making money is the goal of Novell (SuSE), RedHat and Mandrake as well ... and there are many Linux users who claim that those companies are as bad as Microsoft.

I am for open source software, and free software ... but I also understand that I need a job. If all software was free, who would write it and mantain it? Someone will have to make money to pay people ... either by selling the software, by selling updates, or by selling services.

Most of the major advances in Linux have come since IBM started dumping millions of dollars into it ... and since companies like SuSE, Mandrake, and RedHat have started paying people to help develope it. Linus Torvalds now works for the Open Source Development Lab and does Linux full-time (and gets paid to do it). Several other important Linux developers are also employed by Open Source Development Lab ... OSDL recieves funding from Computer Associates, Fujitsu, Hitachi, HP, IBM, Intel, NEC and others (here is the full list). Without all the support from those major corporations, where would Linux be?

I have no problem with open source ... in fact, I prefer it ... but let's not be niave as to how Linux is now moving forward so fast. It is happening because people are able to dedicate more time to development because of the money...not just because it is free. I don't see that as a bad thing ... other people do.
-------------
All this being said, I personally use Linux as my Workstation at Home, I have a dual boot workstation at work that is 75% of the time running in Linux. I use Linux for firewalls at work and at home. I use Linux to scan e-mail for Viruses and Spam before I dump it into my Exchange servers at work. I like GNU Linux, and it is great ... I think linux is cheaper and more secure ... but only if you keep it updated and secure.

People are all the time posting that they have installed RedHat 7.3 or RedHat 9 on a broadband connection ... and don't do updates. It takes about 15 minutes to open a root exploit, install a root kit, and totally control RH 7.3 or RH 9 if it is on the internet and if updates are not installed. The only thing stopping people from doing that is a firewall and updates ... if you don't do either, chances are your machine will be exploited when it is found by a scan.

Windows has it's issues ... mainly that viruses install worms that self infect ... but with a firewall, anti-virus software and updates maintain properly, windows doesn't need to be infected either.
------------


--------------------
Johnny Hughes
hughesjr@linuxhelp.net
Enterprise Alternatives: CentOS, WhiteBoxEL
Favorite Workstation Distros (in order): CentOS, Gentoo, Debian Sarge, Ubuntu, Mandrake, FedoraCore, Slackware, SUSE
Favorite Server Distros (in order): CentOS, WhiteBoxEL, Debian Sarge, Slackware, Mandrake, FedoraCore, Gentoo, SUSE
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hemant
post Aug 30 2004, 07:14 AM
Post #8


RMS is my Hero
******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 782
Joined: 6-October 02
From: Trichy,INDIA
Member No.: 29



Is this going to be a yet another flame war between Linux and Windows.No..
But Certainly there are some issues that makes Microsoft bad guy.
I am not here for Microsoft bashing,in fact long ago i realised that it is
better to let your work do the talking.
I mean..i see people who rarely know any of GNU/Linux and this
free software philosphy..but they are quite active in Microsoft bashing.

But nonetheless i will tell you my reasons:
1.Why Windows doesn't recognise any other OS on a computer.Why it assumes a PC must have
only Windows.This attitude of Microsoft is baffling.Otherwise it should recognise that Linux is there on your harddrive,would you like to add Linux to the bootlist.(something that linux does)

2.I have learnt that Microsft bundles Spyware with their softwares.So it sends information about you and your PC..without letting you know.

If a person like you is standing for Microsoft then you must have your own reasons.I am also for making money.And of course your arguments stand valid from that point of view.

PS:I want to say a lot but will abstain.


--------------------
Hemant Kumar
user posted image
hemant@linuxhelp.net
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hemant
post Aug 30 2004, 07:17 AM
Post #9


RMS is my Hero
******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 782
Joined: 6-October 02
From: Trichy,INDIA
Member No.: 29



One more thing... i want to add...

Microsoft should make all their proprietry file formates open..like..
WMA,WMV,DOC and other office formats


--------------------
Hemant Kumar
user posted image
hemant@linuxhelp.net
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jim
post Aug 31 2004, 11:36 AM
Post #10


Its GNU/Linuxhelp.net
*******

Group: Support Specialist
Posts: 1,280
Joined: 19-November 03
From: University of Minnesota- TC
Member No.: 1,828



About the "spyware" the Microsoft sends out with the OS, they do tell you about it, its in that really really long End User Agrement that you always just click "I Agree" because you don't have a choice. Any body every actually read one of those? I have, the are really interesting.

Anyway, the point to me is this. I like the challenge of Linux. It takes skill to have a slick linux system. Still, I think that for 98% of workstations Windows is the choice because its simple, you check the box for update automatically and your fine. It runs pretty well, the every so often Blue Screen of Death isn't that often. And it works for most purposes.

Problem is, it cost an arm and a leg, and as it probably should because of the thousands of man hours that go behind it. Like Hughes said, I am all for a job. The thing that baffeles me to no end, is my Computer Science major friends, who are running windows, with not one single peice of puchased legal software on the system. From windows up to photoshop everything is stolen and I can't understand it. I ask "Why are you steeling that software?" and they reply "Because it cost so much, its stupid." and when I ask them "so when you are writting software, you are going to what, give it away?" they get all dumbfounded and defensive.

Fact of the matter is, if people, like me, a software development pup, want to get paying jobs in the future, there is going to have to be some way to make money off the software. Now being it upfront cost like Microsoft, or care cost like Red Hat the money has to come in from somewhere, with out it, I might as well change jobs.

Microsoft has some issues, I don't really like them. Like Hemant said, they are egotisticle, is it that hard to have build in support for reading ext3 drives? Why can't I use a browser other than IE (which by the way, is the single biggest pile of trash the Microsoft is responsible for, and we could start a whole nothing thread just on how much it sucks and how its screwing the world of web design with a stick). Thats what pisses me off about Microsoft more than the cost of software.


--------------------
--Jim Lester
jim@linuxhelp.net

Distro: Gentoo
System: AMD Athlon 3000+ XP 2.166 GHz
NVIDIA nForce2 IGP Chipset
1GB 333 MHz DDR SDRAM
NVIDIA nForce2 Dual Head 64 MB Graphics

Server Distro: CentOS
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th October 2017 - 06:01 AM