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> Linux Is Horrible, LINUX help
johnny
post Dec 30 2002, 06:31 PM
Post #1


Whats this Lie-nix Thing?
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I just downloaded and installed mandrake 9.0 and set up on my pc right behind my win98,winme,win2000,and winxp. I have been hearing that linux has improved by leaps and bounds so i thought i would see for myslef how the open source OS works. It is absolutely horrible. I know that to you who have used linux for years this may seems newbish but if open source is going to take off it has to get to the point where its not a chore to use. mad.gif
Dont get me wrong. I am behind the idea of linux 100% and anything that gives competition i am for it. I go with the little guy when i can. Like AMD processors to intell i purchase 99% AMD.
Currently I use all the operating systems windows wise with the exception of win3.1 or 95. And there is one big difference between Microsoft and linux. MS soft is intuitive and linux is learned. You can look at file extensions in microsoft and have a good idea what its for. In linux you look at a file extension and its a mystery what its for. But that i wont go into.
When you boot to windows and you want to check your drives my computer is right there. I havent seen where that is in mandrake yet. how the heck do i dial out. i cant find the tools to get my modem going.
why does it have to be hard to find it?lol
Linux is hard to use from the onset. When I try to figure out how to do a simple task like download opera and execute it and run it i find that they never intended for you to install anything beyond the first install of the OS. So my download is still sitting in documents going nowhere.lol
However i read on the net people are doing all the same things on their linux systems that i am doing on my pc so i know you can do it its just a matter of learning a different language. aka linux.
It is not my intention to flame linux but to incourage people that devise the os to make it more intuitive so that we microsft people can migrate from our present systems to somthing less sinister.
I hope someone in here can help me with some of my issues because i have a brand new system mandrake 9.0 sitting dormant for the time being that is impossible to use........
johnny
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Corey
post Dec 30 2002, 11:23 PM
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Okay, how to start a response from this rant.....

Well, first off, it sounds like you're frustrated. The one thing you need to keep in mind is that you're comparing apples with oranges here. If you are using something for so long, you get really used to it, and it's all you know. I commend you for your open source attitude, and the want to try something new and unknown, but when you dive into those waters, you must remember to keep a good open mind and ask questions. My mother still sits down with windows 98 and asks me thousands of questions, it's not so simple to her, she don't know how to get on the internet, she don't know what my computer is for, she has to ask about everythign until she finally remembers. The same goes for moving to Linux from Windows. You can't expect it to be identical, and you can't expect it to act and perform exactly like windows. If it did, then why would you switch? (cept price wise).

There are several of documents available on the internet to help you with linux, as well as many people who volunteer their time to help others, we all started off not knowing anything and we learned by asking questions.

IF you really wanna dive head first into Linux and get a real feal for the system, then I suggest you learn how to use the console. You can still run X with Gnome or KDE or whatever, but get used to your console, it is a quick and easy tool to access all kinds of information, for example, you want to find out about your drives? How much space is left? Open up your console and type "df", you'll get output like this:
QUOTE
Filesystem           1k-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda5              4411616   2156708   2030804  52% /
/dev/hda2                93329      7229     81281   9% /boot
/dev/hda7              3028080    344360   2529900  12% /home
/dev/hda3              4385160   2432760   1952400  56% /mnt/shared


This shows me quickly that my / (or root) partition is 52% used and my /home partition is 12% used.

Dialing up to the internet is a little bit trickier, it's been a few years since i've had dial-up, so I don't recall all the steps. I do know that there is a nice utility called 'kppp' that makes dialing up painless.

QUOTE
i find that they never intended for you to install anything beyond the first install of the OS


You couldn't be more mistaken, Linux was built in a way so that you can add everything and anything to it. You can even fool around the kernel, the very heart of the system, add and delete stuff, etc. Try doing that with Windows.

All in all, you really need patience when you learn something new, this goes for everything. My first experience with Linux was scary, and I left it for 6 months. Started up on it again, and thanks to these guys with Linuxhelp.ca, i was able to learn a lot more about linux and computers then i ever thought possible. We're always here to answer your questions, as well we have guides and howto's on this website to help you along, don't be afraid to learn, and don't expect an operating system created by many people in their spare time to do everything for you.


--------------------
Corey Quilliam
(former) Linuxhelp.ca Administrator
cquilliam-AT-gmail-dot-com

Want to help out Linuxhelp.net? Check out our Linuxhelp Wiki and see if there are some articles you would like to submit!!

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Ubuntu 6.04 - Server (I'm not upgrading this baby until support runs out in 2012) (Some old POS dell)
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johnny
post Dec 31 2002, 04:13 AM
Post #3


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MANDRAKE 9.0 DAY 2 ...........

Well thanks for the filesystem help touretttes. I plan on getting right down to it as soon as i find out why mandrake crashed and rreports only crazy colors and gui-glitches that resemble cordoroy under zigzags only to be replaced by a checkerboard of hundreds of really kewl lookin pixelized dots that resemble somthing i saw in the 80's when i went "cidding" one weekend. In short my linux has crashed hard. I wander if it had something to do with the fact i was attempting to install an nvidia driver for my gforce3?? NODOUBT..Why ohh GOD Why??????? ohmy.gif All i want is something new. Ohh well all my experiance with microsoft stuff reminded me that before i knew how to manually replace dll's and repair msdos.sys registry repair that all i have to to is reinstall mandrake...ok.why not give it one more shot...uugh.. Anyhow i figured out how to connect to the internet with the connection device inside themandrake control center. It was actually better than using the Winpoet dialup program that i have to use under windows2000 and win98. Win XP has something very similar to this bundeled with the os too. very quick and convenient.

SO..........
When i get this back up my next question that you could help with is the file tree like ms where the desktop is at the top and all files are under it?

And when i download opera again how do you install the program once it is in the documents area?

That is all for now i hope tourettes can help with this.....
ohh yes one more qu for touretttes.....Do you tick???
johnny
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Corey
post Dec 31 2002, 02:19 PM
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There are some very good articles out there that describe the Linux (Unix) filesystem layout and the purposes for each directory. One book that is great for learning is called Running Linux (O'Reilly Press), it gives you all the basic fundamentals (and more) of the Linux operating system. However, I will attempt to describe some of the basics.

The linux filesystem is setup with directories and sub-directories, like Windows, except there are no "C:" or "D:" drives, etc. Instead, linux has what are called "mount points". Just picture this, rather then going into My Computer and seeing A:, C:, D:, E: for your floppy, hard disks and cd-rom's, you go into "C:cdrom" for your cdrom and "C:floppy" for your floppy. Moving into these folders would display nothing if there were no cdrom in the drive and so on.

The linux filesystem has a base directory called "/" (or root directory). This is the begining of everything. Beneath this directory there are sub-directories. The most basic are:

/ - The root filesystem, the begining of it all
/bin - Essential user command binaries (for all users)
/boot - Static files for booting up your system
/dev - Device files
/etc - System configuration files
/home - User home directories
/lib - Essential shared libraries/kernel modules
/mnt - Mount point for temporarily mounted filesystems
/opt - Addon application software packages
/root - Home directory for root user (administrator)
/sbin - System binaries
/tmp - Temporary files
/usr - Sharable read-only data, most software is installed here
/var -Variable data files such as logs, mail spools, etc.


Some of these you don't really need to think about until you really get into Linux, others are fundamental. The /home directory is where your own little userspace is. For example, on installation, your system should have asked you to set up a user, if you chose 'johnny' as your username, then it would have made a directory for you called "/home/johnny", this is your users home directory, while logged in as user, this is where you would be able to save stuff and use for whatever. As each user is added, they are given a directory under /home for themselves.

/dev contains any and every device that would be attached to your computer. For example, your hard-drive is most like the device /dev/hda and the second partition on your hard drive is /dev/hda2 . Your floppy drive is /dev/fd0 , while your cdrom may be /dev/hdb (most systems will link your cdrom to /dev/cdrom". Other devices like your mouse, joysticks, sound device are all stored in this directory. You shouldn't need to mess with anything in there, as most system set everything up for you.

/mnt directory is where your cdrom and floppy disks (among other things) are mounted to. For example, when you place a cd into your drive and you want to read something off it, you would issue the command (in console) "mount /mnt/cdrom". This will "mount" the cd to the directory /mnt/cdrom. Now you can just change into this directory (cd /mnt/cdrom) and view everything on the cd. Window managers like KDE or GNOME will create an icon on your desktop that will allow you to mount and unmount your cd's and floppy disks when you need them. Remember, when you are done with a cd and you would like to take it out, you must unmount it first ("umount /mnt/cdrom") or else your cd drawer won't open. You can mount other things in this directory as well, such as a Windows 98 partition that you have. If it's on the first partition on your hard drive, then you can mount it by creating a directory in /mnt (mkdir /mnt/win98) and mounting it with "mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/win98". This will allow you to look at, and edit, anything on that drive.

In windows, when you install a software package, it usually installs in something like "C:Program FilesSoftware Package". In this directory you usually find the execuatble, configuration files, help documentation, etc, all in one place. Linux, on the other hand, has a specific place for each part of a package. Your binaries (executables) will probably be found in "/usr/local/bin" while your configuration files are in "/etc" and help documentation in "/usr/local/share/doc". (Note: These directories may differ depending on the package you install).

The /usr directory hosts all your software for your system 99% of the time (the other 1% you will find in either /opt or in your home directory).

To execute a program in linux, you can simply type out the name of the program from the command line, or click on the menu in KMenu or Gnome. Whenever a software package installs, it installs the binary (or executable) into a directorys (either /bin, /sbin, /usr/bin, /usr/sbin, /usr/local/sbin or /usr/local/bin) and using a "Shell Variable" called PATH, linux knows where to look for the program if you just type it out. Unlike in windows where 99% of the time you have to go into the programs specific directory in order to run it.

Tip: IF you want to see how many programs are on your system, press your TAB key twice from console. The tab key is very useful for helping you speed up the location of programs, for example, if you want to run opera, you can type out "Ope" and press the TAB key twice and it will eithe rcomplete the name or give you anything that matches what you have typed. VERY useful.


Now, as for Opera, you should have downloaded the installation package with the extension "RPM": opera-6.11-20021129.3-shared-qt.i386.rpm . This can be isntalled by going into your console (or konsole if you're in KDE), and change to a root user and installing with the following commands:

QUOTE
su -
(enter root password here)
rpm -i opera-6.11-20021129.3-shared-qt.i386.rpm


su - allows you to change to root so you can have access to writing to anywhere on the system (regular users aren't allowed to write anywhere but their home directory and /tmp). The second command installs the package using the RPM (Redhat packaging Manager). After this completes, you can just close down your konsole and opera should be in your menu.

Any more questions, let me know smile.gif

btw, what do you mean by "tick" ?


--------------------
Corey Quilliam
(former) Linuxhelp.ca Administrator
cquilliam-AT-gmail-dot-com

Want to help out Linuxhelp.net? Check out our Linuxhelp Wiki and see if there are some articles you would like to submit!!

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johnny
post Jan 2 2003, 04:39 AM
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i put in the command line like you said carefully and i get this:
no such file or directory.
question. why isnt there an exe part of the file that i can execute from?? or is that too much for linux programmers to do?

i got this sytem going after the crash...the install is pretty systematic..too bad installing a program is something that takes an amatuer programer to accomplish.
Is there anyone here that can tell me what i have to do to install a simple program?
Jesus god in heaven i heard that the israeli military is thinking of going to linux. they will lose the war!!
So far i cant say that linux is good for anything except surfing the internet.How unbelievably disapointing.I thought at first because the install was so easy that all else coundnt be too bad, man was i wrong.
I will not claim to be any kind of genius with a pc but i can manage to build computers and networks with microsoft equipment so why do i feel so defensless with this os? this is not good...
OK so help yourself and quit whinnin right? So i go looking on the net to get some info for myself and not be too much of a lamer. I find ZERO ZILCH!!!! Thars right,NODDA. No help in this dept at all.
Some one tell me where i can find info that explains this os. I went to the websights that provide the os and they have no help at all available.That just as bad as MS> yep no help is just as bad as priced outta my reach help...
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bensode
post Jan 3 2003, 11:49 AM
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I hate foaming at the mouth ranting. I see that the situation has been difused, but what people need to understand is the following :

Linux IS NOT Windows

Linux is not a program.
Linux is not difficult.

Linux IS a robust and configurable operating system. This means like learning anything else that is configurable, it requires thought and planning. If you want an out of the box and brainless operating system that your pet monkey can install by clicking icons with "Next" and "Finished" on them, stick with Windows.

We were all newbs at one point and we were all frustrated. I can't say we all did our homework, but I did as much as I could while I learned. After a few weeks and trial and error, you'll get the hang of it too.
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johnny
post Jan 3 2003, 12:49 PM
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bensode: you are just like everyone that i have run into that uses linux. You say....

"Linux IS NOT Windows" well duhh.....

if i thought linux was some cheap knockoff of windows i wouldnt have wasted my time.

"linux is not a program" duhh again.....

well glad you can see that. what else have you learned?

"linux is not difficult" lmao....maybe not i cannot judge that as well as someone like the moderator who has lots of experiance with it. However this seems like a very ignorant statement. If linux is not difficult and it is only moderately difficult or even easy, then the percentage of pcusers that use linux distros would be in the double digits.however they are not. therefore your statement is innacurate as far as i can see.

"linux is robust" perhaps...
i cant say that since i have had my mandrake 9.0 crash only a day after installation. well it has been running ok since then but the first time i installed the new driver for my video card the os decided to go south.

and i quote again....... "If you want an out of the box and brainless operating system that your pet monkey can install by clicking icons with "Next" and "Finished" on them, stick with Windows."

these are the words straight from the mouth of a complete moron. ohh would that be you???? you idiot.. wake up..next?next?finished?
lmao at you.....
let me guess? you like a car that has an old carter carburatur that you have to pump exactly so many times or you have to wait 5minutes for the fuel to clear. your ignition switch only works if you put a sequence of keys in and turn in the prerequired twists and after that the motor starts. you want your car to only work after you figure out the proper timing sequence for the ignition on every second monday of the month and it runs great every third tuesday because if you do you are exactly the kind of villiage idiot that wrote the previous reply and need not respond again.

most people like a toaster that just works. most people dont want to work on the car everyday just to go to the store. most people would like a refrigerator that doesnt have to be recycled to keep the food cold.
hahaha.. i feel sorry for you. your os must really suck......

if anyone with intelligence can help i am listening.......
johnny
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Corey
post Jan 3 2003, 04:10 PM
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We have attempted to help you several ways with your transition from a Windows platform to a Linux platform. We understand that at times it can be frustrating and sometimes difficult to comprehend. However, using this forums as a means of lashing out, will not be tolerated. If you would like to post your thoughts on Linux, you are free to do so, but replying with negativity directed at a particular person is not appropriate nor tolerated.

We are all here to help, hense the name of the forum and the name of the website. There are plenty of documents out there to learn more about linux, and even a guides on getting started with linux. I would suggest for you to check out www.linuxdoc.org for mass amounts of information that should help you.

If you have any more sensible questions, please ask. This thread is now closed.

Thank you.


--------------------
Corey Quilliam
(former) Linuxhelp.ca Administrator
cquilliam-AT-gmail-dot-com

Want to help out Linuxhelp.net? Check out our Linuxhelp Wiki and see if there are some articles you would like to submit!!

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Kubuntu 8.04 64-bit - Desktop (HP m8120n QuadCore)
Ubuntu 6.04 - Server (I'm not upgrading this baby until support runs out in 2012) (Some old POS dell)
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